Coconut College: A change in direction?

cocos2d for iPhone » Programming » Programming - Everything else

Coconut College: A change in direction?

(22 posts) (11 voices)

Started 1 year ago by cjl
Latest reply from pstinnett

Tags:

No tags yet.

cjl
Member

Cocos2dians:

I've been working on a Cocos2d beginner's tutorial:

http://www.coconutcollege.net

I've just finished writing the 202 course, which is the second half of the Fart Button tutorial, but I haven't posted it yet. I've started to become dissatisfied with my approach. Originally I thought working through a series of different applications, starting simple and growing in complexity, was the right way to go. Start with Hello World, move on to Fart Button, take a detour through the Cocos2d tests, then eventually a Whack-A-Mole style full game.

But I don't like it. Now I'm thinking the entire tutorial should work towards building a single game, and each course should build on the last. At this point I am open to suggestions, but I'm thinking a Space Invaders clone might be the way to go.

As I'd like to finish this by the time Cocos2d 1.0 ships, I probably shouldn't spend too much time second guessing myself, but I don't really like the current direction.

Anyway, I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this. Which approach would you prefer?

Posted 1 year ago #
bazcocos
Member

Personally I do think its best to build-up a single app, unless you're trying to show distinct areas which would be confusing when put into a single app (ie the new code is lost around the old code).

Space Invaders seems fine, covers most stuff, though is a little 'old school'. Your 'Don't Touch Bees' game looks like a good example of a game more associated with a touch device.

I've only skimmed it, but your site looks very clear and nicely done, I wouldnt want you to re-do lots of work.

Posted 1 year ago #
cjl
Member

@bazcocos - Thank you for the feedback, which confirms my suspicions that my current approach may not be optimal.

>> I wouldnt want you to re-do lots of work.

Don't worry, I think I can re-use the ideas, if not some of the text. Also, my wife wants me to clean the furnace room, and I'm not cleaning the furnace room, I'm working on my tutorial instead.

Posted 1 year ago #
mrTortex
Member

Well, this is a complex question. I lectured for 7 years (visual effects), deciding on an approach to a course is a tough one. Whichever way you go you wont please everyone, and that's fine. :)

Building toward a finished complete and rather complex game is a great way to go. But, also include the mini tuts. With complex (or seemingly complex at first) topics such as saving game data, rotating screen to device orientation etc, it's better to put these into very simple 10 minute projects as that allows students to get to the finished working thing quickly. You then, on the tut after, roll it into the larger game project. This serves two purposes, it allows a quick 'wow' moment that encourages students, and it shows how to break a complex large project into smaller chunks.

As for the furnace room, I have no idea what that is, but I'd like one. :)

Posted 1 year ago #
Benihana
Member

I'd go look at what has, and hasn't been done in tutorials. No reason to cover ground that's already been covered if there are niches to still explore. As for a game, I think you're going to have to delve quite deeply into details about game logic that will be strictly about implementing that kind of game.

Posted 1 year ago #
riq
Key Master

@cjl: If you are going to announce/show/advertise a product that teaches how to create a game, and it is not 100% open source/free, don't announce it in this forum. Thanks. I'm already doing it with Sapus Tongue.
Please, follow the guidelines: http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/forum/topic/3

Posted 1 year ago #
chrisco
Member

Hey @riq - I believe it is 100% free (unless I'm missing something)

Posted 1 year ago #
riq
Key Master

@chrisco: I might be wrong and I recon that my previous message wasn't clear enough. The information seems to be free now, but I don't under which license. Will they remain free ? Will all the courses be free ?
Don't get me wrong. The site contains very useful courses, but if it starts to contain "game starter kit" courses then I would like to know the license of those courses. And I would like to know also if the site, in the future, is going to sell "game starter kit" courses. Just that.

Posted 1 year ago #
chrisco
Member

Oh - I see what you're saying @riq. I'll butt out and let @cjl answer you on that one ;)

Posted 1 year ago #
cjl
Member

@riq:

Sorry if I wasn't clear, this is going to be 100% free forever. The name "Coconut College" is a joke, and in no way is meant to imply a professional, or even well organized, operation. I guess I should figure out which license to use, because I don't want people to copy the tutorial and say that they wrote it, but I also want it to be completely free. Any suggestions? Maybe something like a Creative Commons non-commercial doohickey.

I will not compete with Sapus Tongue. Honestly, I don't have the skills to compete with you, and I don't want to hurt Cocos2d. This is a set of tutorials for absolute beginners. If the tutorial includes the source code for a game, it will not be a very complicated game, and I will encourage people to donate to Cocos2d, and purchase Sapus Tongue.

By the way, I think you might be missing out on a huge opportunity in the "game starter kit" market. In my opinion, you should be selling more than just Sapus Tongue. There are a LOT of people who would buy starter kits for other types of games, written by you. This is famously called the "Pick and Pan" strategy...in the American gold rush of the late 1800s it wasn't the gold miners that got rich, it was the people selling them the picks and pans. Everyone wants to write iPhone games, and you have the tools, and a huge audience, so sell them some picks....

Posted 1 year ago #
riq
Key Master

@cjl: good to know, and thanks for the advice.

Posted 1 year ago #
cocos
Member

@cjl Ok, so lets say we have 3 more game kits. Two hundred people buy each one of them which may be a low estimate in the early game/gold rush. That gives us 1000 kits to support.
Lets say every kit owner has a question every week - of course just an estimate on my side. This give us 20.4 emails a day to support including Saturdays and Sundays. At 15 minutes per e-mail rate it takes more than 5 hours per day to support just the game kits. How much time would be left for other things - see the list http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/forum/topic/3 and cocos2d framework?

Posted 1 year ago #
Benihana
Member

@cocos: Are you part of the developer group, or was the "question a week" completely made up? That seems awful high, especially when we have such a strong community on the forums. 15 minutes an email seems high as well.

The real point is, I think right now everyone would like to have that kind of problem (selling too well), and as that is how Riq primarily supports himself, it doesn't make sense to defer that to working solely on the framework.

Posted 1 year ago #
dany
Member

1000*200 = 200 000. Riq will be really happy to reply to about 20 mail a day :D

however, I think that at this point (thanks to mac support) a world editor similar to unity, torque2d, etc... maybe at 200$? Maybe free with some game-starter-kit? would be a killing feature for cocos2d.

Posted 1 year ago #
letmeknow
Member

It's nice to hear about "pick and pan" strategy.

@cjl: My suggestion for your samples licenses: CC-BY.

It still depend on what samples you could give, things like top #10-#100 app it's ok to give you a credit, but things like a ball drop to the floor, people can easily download them everywhere.

About CC-BY-NC, you can't stop people (who learn cocos2d & your tutorial) to make a game and submit to Apps Store, can you? What the point for Non-Commercial license, make free games only?

Posted 1 year ago #
cjl
Member

@letmeknow

Thank you for the suggestion, I've been reading about the CC licenses and will pick on of them shortly.

I'm not concerned about the source code I publish with the tutorial, that's essentially worthless. I'm more concerned with the text of the tutorial. The last in-depth tutorial I published was "stolen", in that someone translated from English into another language, and gave me no credit. I guess I don't want anyone to steal my tutorial and then try to pass it off as their own, or try to sell it.

Posted 1 year ago #
cocos
Member

@Benihana I am not part of the developer group yet. However being impressed by riq, other developers and all community efforts I will contribute on my part in my full capacity.
My sole point was: riq knows the best what he is doing and where he wants to go. He knows how to strike the balance between bringing cocos2d to next level and spreading himself too thin by supporting too many game kits.

Posted 1 year ago #
letmeknow
Member

@cjl: about your text of the tutorial, I would suggest: CC-BY-SA-NC.
-> You cannot sell my work (tutorial), and must share (your changes/modifications if you use it on your website) as I do.

But I think you should note different license for the samples/source code, since people won't use the source code with NC or SA licences.

Posted 1 year ago #
bagellad
Member

Hi there, i am enjoying your website. Why don't you have the user develop reusable objects they come together into a bigger program.

Posted 1 year ago #
pstinnett
Member

I've worked through the first 2 'courses' 101 and 102 and it's been very helpful in learning. I only have a bit of prior Objective C knowledge and this is a great way to learn Cocos2d. Hoping that 202 will be released soon and other chapters to follow quickly since I'm catching up with you:) Thanks for putting this together.

Posted 1 year ago #
cjl
Member

@pstinnett

Thank you for the feedback. I'm currently in the process of re-writing the first four courses, as I was unhappy with the direction I had taken.

Instead of each set of courses building a discrete application, I will instead build a single game over the entire set of courses. I'm working as fast as I can, but unfortunately my 'real' job keeps getting in the way.

I should have the rewrite finished in the next few weeks, hopefully to coincide with the release of Cocos2d 0.95.

Posted 1 year ago #
pstinnett
Member

I totally understand:) Thanks for your time in writing this tutorial! Looking forward to the full version, in the meantime I'll be working through 201 and then looking for other resources to help me get going.

Posted 1 year ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.