Why not use some kind of progress bar for donation like wikipedia ?
When riq see that for the next quarter he didn't get enough money he could make this progress bar appear everywhere on the site to warn us about what is happening.
There could also be a kind of "award" or "achievement" like in a game to thanks people for donating (just for the fun part, not for showing this guy support the project, this one don't, everyone do what he can)
My stance on cocos2d
(80 posts) (55 voices)-
tof42
MemberPosted 1 year ago # -
Riq: Just a small heads-up: I like your work very very much!
What I really would like to see is a PDF, a manual of cocos2d, where all things available get explained. It should also contain best practice etc etc.
I would love to pay for something like that :)
That would be great! I would be another customer ;)
And I think there are much more out there ;)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't mean to be a party pooper but I don't think that;
"a manual of cocos2d, where all things available get explained"
is realistic. The tests and the comments in the source provide practical examples of what the code does/is intended to do, there is a wealth of information in the tests. You only have to look at the differences between cocos2d 0.82 and 0.99 to realise that the contributors would be spending a large proportion of their time updating the pdf's, most of the information being duplicated from the tests and source code.
Other questions that relate to games design and techniques are best left to the forums where multiple solutions can be proposed/eliminated/mashed together. If something needs to be made clearer then its probably best if the comments in the tests are extended, that way the code and documentation is kept in sync.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I too would pay for a pdf or something similar, just to purchase it in support. I also agree with abitofcode, it would be a nightmare trying to keep the "manuals" updated. As a compromise, one (or several) could make a version of the pdf for each major revision of cocos2d, this would also bring return customers. Again, that is A LOT of time that riq doesn't seem to have available with all that he currently does. I am by no means a cocos2d expert, but I would volunteer some of my time to assist with a project like that.
Posted 1 year ago # -
robodude666
MemberYou can checkout the Doxygen API ref. included in the announcement of every release on the website.
You can also install Doxygen yourself and create a local copy, then convert it to PDF. You can also add the cocos2d-iPhone APIs into the XCode help database via the default cocos2d-iphone xcode project. This would allow you to search XCode's help for Cocos2D methods/classes :).
.. Then, send a donation to Cocos2D! It's as if you bought a PDF with documentation.
Posted 1 year ago # -
VTX
MemberWith the PDF I mean a more detailed cocos2d guide. There currently in not much documentation on how to do things the best way (if you know what I mean). We currently have lots of code examples floating around, but I want a more complete guide. It would be really nice to have such PDF, I would pay up to $100 for it (if it is good & up2date).
I already have de doxygen API reference, but that is not a cocos2d programming guide, its just a reference :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
There's some great open source game code out there, check the sticky post at the top of the forum for some links. The trouble I'm having is with 'the best way', it really depends on what you're trying to achieve.
Take STAPig for example, we wanted it to work back on the first gen iPhone targeting OS2.2.1, which of course was slower. We also wanted very quick replay times without loading time between each game. We could have built this any number of ways but with our particular requirements we ended up with 2 AtlasSpriteManagers sandwiching particle effects between them. We preloaded the 2 1024x1024 spritesheets at the beginning along with the majority of the audio. The scenery for the menus and the game was shared across these 2 spritesheets which avoided the need to reload between games.
This worked great for the first couple of updates and the original spec, it does everything we wanted it to do, it does however make updates a nightmare.
'The best way' is subjective and is probably best left to the forums. I have no problem with someone writing a 'space invaders' or 'pacman' howto as a practical introduction to cocos2d but with examples of these games out there in other languages it would IMO make more sense to convert these to cocos2d as an exercise.
Then again there is a documented howto out there with fully documented source code and a template you can use for your own games http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/store
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi,
I truly appreciate all your suggestions/ideas and I thank you for them.
cocos2d will continue as it is with the the additional trait already specified in my previous posts (post1 and post2)There will be no substantial changes affecting cocos2d ecosystem.
Following your advice, I'll work to make the "donate" button more visible.Just wanted to let you know that I have already discussed privately with the person concerned the issues that led to the necessary explanation of my personal stance. This was above all, a question of ethical boundaries which were at stake for me.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Riq, I just wanted to add a thank you for your dedication - the work you have done has truly been very important to the development of the iPhone as a platform.
It is my impression that one of your chief goals with this website is to keep it as open and welcoming to new developers as possible. With that in mind I want to reiterate some of the suggestions above that are particularly low impact on the current mood of the site:
- The script adding your affiliate link to all iTunes links would have zero impact on anybody but Apple's bottom line :)
- New charges of money for using the site or publishing games (while something I would pay) in my opinion will have a much larger negative impact on use of Cocos2D than ads which are optional to click on. I would actually LIKE to see ads on the site because I think the site in itself contribute to its own hosting costs.
- A more prominent donation bar with a goal for the project may do wonders in raising donations and again would not force a new user to pay any money.I also have a curiosity - have you at all considered spending more time developing your own games and less on the new revisions of Cocos-2D? I am confident that you, the grandmaster of Cocos-2D could produce some of the greatest games we have yet seen with the engine! This scenario would also probably include delegating some of the responsibilities of development and the site to others as has been mentioned earlier - in fact this maybe a good thing long term in case you want to accept a job at a big company and such so that the community does not die.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Questor
MemberJust wanted to chime in and thank riq for all his hard work.
I, for one, totally understand where he is coming from on this. He has put alot of his time and energy into cocos2d and made it all available in the least restrictive manner possible. So protecting the small subset of his work (that also is his main income) from others marketing a directly competitive product in the cocos2d community is pretty understandable IMHO. Not too mention that this competition is based mostly on his work (and that of other cocos2d contributors).
I am also glad to hear that riq is not planning to change the license or charge a license fee as I think that would be severely detrimental to the future of coco2d in the long run (again, IMHO).
Finding a sustainable business plan (for any business/project) is a difficult prospect and I think many of the other suggestions posted here should by tried... However, it may take some trial and error to find the best solution with the least impact to the community. (For example, there are good non-intrusive ads, and there are "in your face" annoying animated ads that distract a person from even trying to read a webpage....not to mention ads that have audio enabled by default...yuk!).
I think we can all agree that given the choice between a few minor changes versus the loss of riq's full-time focus on Cocos2d...the latter would be the worst possible scenario.
Anyway, thanks again riq for all your hard work and I hope the solutions you try increase your (well-deserved) revenue to an acceptable level while protecting your work from opportunists.
Regards,
QPosted 1 year ago # -
I really believe that this community whom gave big affords starting with Riq, doing good stuff for the mobile industry. Probably in coming months the Cocos2d will bring a good chance for us to make good apps/games on iphone 4G. So thanks to the people who are giving their times and interest on Cocos2d. Thanks Riq. Hope to see you in Turkey giving a speech to the developer here one day. Once I got my app is on I will donate you. Thanks Riq.
Posted 1 year ago # -
mrTortex
Member"What I really would like to see is a PDF, a manual of cocos2d, where all things available get explained. It should also contain best practice etc etc.
I would love to pay for something like that :)"
I'll buy that :)
I'm late to this as well, but I'm late to most things...
The way I see it, Cocos2D is the #1 reason I'm getting anything working on the iPhone/iPad. Without it, code would be boring and I'd be stuck in Flash which would mean drinking too much alcohol so I could get through my day dealing with it's uselessness. Anyway,I'm going off topic. Cocos2D is a great piece of work, and I'd be more than happy to pay for a PDF manual, fully affiliated video tutorials, click on ads, donate $10 a month and donate 10% of all income from anything I make with it.
Riq, you have enabled so many people to achieve what they would never have done otherwise. People may think Cocos2D just makes it faster, which it does, but it also makes it approachable. I taught for 7 years, making things faster does not mean anyone will do it. Making it approachable, that is the key. You've done great things for the community.
Now, I have to go because a Crow is eating the rubber surround on my bedroom window. And Borris the huge house spider has appeared again and it may be my last shot and getting him out of here.
Posted 1 year ago # -
MrMojo
MemberMaybe @Riq could used Kickstarter.com to get some $$$ for the PDF/manual thing... he could even outsource it. Basically it's a crowdsource way of getting funding for a project you've always wanted to do. not really investement for a business, more like investement for a single idea. Of course it wouldn't have to be for just the manual... it could be for building a Torque Builder like GUI for Cocos2d, etc...
http://www.kickstarter.com/
http://www.inc.com/guides/2010/04/using-kickstarter-for-business.html
http://www.documentary.org/content/kickstarter-effect-fundraising-game-theoryPosted 1 year ago # -
I think we could all help @Riq (and everyone else) by helping out on the wiki. I see a whole bunch of Cocos2d-iPhone tutorial and "how to" blog posts out there on the inter-web which wouldn't be out of place in the Wiki.
An added up side to this, if the wiki could become the premier place for Cocos2d tips, tricks and resources, and if @Riq did choose to allow a little bit of advertising on the site (which I'm all for by the way) then that "little bit" of advertising would be all the more profitable.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Duckwit
MemberRiq - Your work is amazing and the time and effort you have put into making cocos2d what it is today has been well spent. Without cocos2d developing at the age of 14 would be much, much harder that it is. Thank you so much for the time you have spent on this!
When I have a bit more money I plan to purchase your offered products or make a donation. :D
Duckwit
Posted 1 year ago # -
n8tr
MemberRiq, thank you for all your hard work. I am just getting into game development and all you've done with Cocos2d really makes it possible for the average Joe to start getting into making games during his off-time.
I would like to see you find more ways to bring in money to support yourself and the project. I wonder if you could make smaller source code projects to demonstrate a few concepts and sell them for around 25-50 bucks. I am saving money to buy Sapus Tongue and LevelSVG but money is really tight right now so shelling out $200+ in one shot is not feasible. If I could spend 20 bucks here and there to assist in learning I definitely could and would do that. Just a thought... Thanks again!
Posted 1 year ago # -
n8tr - I agree. I bought Sapus Tounge and it was great but a little over my head for a new dev.
A cool idea would be a small store where members could submit source code projects and have them for sale for $10-20 a pop with revenue going to Cocos. They can be simple game ideas. I would have no problem writing a few and submitting them. I would love the exposure as well.
Examples: breakout, pong, drop game, etc.
Anything that would get a person going in the right direction for development.
Posted 1 year ago # -
indy2005
MemberHi Riq,
I hope to see you extend your software offerings, perhaps offering small components which people can buy to include in their projects but outside of the core product. For example, a top down car in Box2D which can be slotted into a project or LevelSVG (just an example). These smaller offerings would be more affordable than some of you other offerings (which I think are reasonably priced but beyond impulse purchases perhaps) and could see more volume. I would very easily see myself buying components on a regular basis impulsively month on month.
Also, if I were to buy a book on Cocos2D I would much rather it be one written by you Riq, not anyone else. I honestly think you could make a good living from a printed hardback book, although I appreciate you are more a programmer than an author! I would happily pay £50 for a decent book on Cocos2D whether a PDF or a physical book.
Regards
i
Posted 1 year ago # -
I only recently ran into this whole discussion as I started researching Cocos2D and wanted to add a few comments. First of all, while I understand the reason for Riq's position I don't believe that there is any ethical issue in attempting to sell source code based on Cocos2D. If the starterkit in question were more similar to Sapus Tongue then it would be a different story, but as it is the existence of the individual in question's site, his book, and the starterkit increased my interest in Cocos2D and the Sapus Tongue source rather than in any way detracting from it. I have purchased the starterkit (since I have plans for a derivative of a line drawing game), and after absorbing the code will purchase a copy of Sapus Tongue's source. There are elements of both I can use and those elements combined will save me 70% of the effort of putting together my game for a very reasonable cost (from my perspective) of $418.
It is inevitable in this industry (or most for that matter) that if you come up with a good idea someone else will come up with a variation on it. The smartest business strategy is not to waste time trying to stop the competition or draw attention to them through negative publicity, but rather to figure out how to capitalize on their presence to promote your own business. In this case, both the book and the starterkit promote Cocos2D which brings more traffic to this site. How then, can Riq take advantage of that traffic to generate more income? Simple, have a sale. Drop the price of the Sapus Tongue source code packages to $99, $199, and $299 and also offer upgrades between the packages for the difference in price. (So someone can buy the basic package for $99, for example, and upgrade it to the second package for $100.) Limit the availability of the upgrades for the duration of the sale and send out emails as the sale comes to an end mentioning that the upgrade offer is about to expire. Ideally have the sale run through the holidays since people will have extra cash available after Hanukkah and Christmas. Extend the sale as long as the numbers justify it!
Whatever you end up deciding to do (the PDF book is another good idea...don't go with a printed version though unless you do an on-demand version yourself as the royalties are terrible vs. 100% profit on the PDF) I wish you the best.
Craig
Posted 1 year ago #
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