Are people aware cocos2d comes with example code?

cocos2d for iPhone » Programming » cocos2d support (graphics engine)

Are people aware cocos2d comes with example code?

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Started 1 year ago by abitofcode
Latest reply from riq

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abitofcode
Moderator

I'm wondering whether the monocle studios introduction to cocos2D may inadvertently be causing some confusion and preventing new users from finding the Demo code and tests that are packaged up with each version of cocos.

It's this line in particular;

"Then, and this is an important step, delete both the Demo directory and CMakeLists.txt in External\Chipmunk by right-clicking on each and choosing delete. (You'll want to delete the files, not just the references.)"

Also quite a number of questions in the forum could be answered with a quick glance at the demos, I understand some people will post before they RTFM but it seems that a number of people out there don't realize these files exist.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

There are demos that show a FEW of the principles but I for one would tearfully sob if I was given a cocos2D manual to effing read!

for people that are just starting out, a few demos that show MAYBE 25-30% of the features of this incredible SDK are not adequate. I know the people writing cocos2d are probably too busy writing the next version that we all want, but the other day, Clain (thank you) wrote me a small tutorial on proper scene management and even though I'm still puzzling through it, the time he took when he didn't have to was well appreciated. It has helped a lot!

There are concepts in cocos2d - like scene management and particles and the various physics that are not very well documented. If i'm wrong - PLEASE show me the FM so I can read it? I would dearly love to RTFM.

I too often have been guilty of this and see it constantly in these forums where brand new users are chastised for not reading or for presenting code that is mind boggling to them that the ancient ones here find trivial. They sometimes seem annoyed that a newbie would waste their precious forum space with questions that any 3yo programmer should be able to answer. Many times the people asking the questions have been researching and reading for hours and only ask the question when they feel they have programmed them selves into such a corner that they will never get out of alive - but many times these new developers are hesitant to post questions because they fear the reception they will receive.

I personally have pored over the demos for days and printed them out and campared. They start making more sense as you have more, other examples to compare to, but for the beginner to both objective C and all the additional syntax of cocos2d - they are bewildering (at least to me). When I first started, I had no idea where Obj C ended and cocos2d began.

I'm getting better.

Posted 1 year ago #
cjl
Member

@Osiris:

You make many good points.

I am currently working on a tutorial aimed at absolute beginners, because it seems to be an unmet need. And, as an absolute beginner myself, I think I understand what other beginners might be looking for. Anyway, when I have something presentable would you be interested in reading it?

As far as people on the forum chastising newbies, I must admit that I've seen it, but thankfully it seems to be rare. By and large the Cocos2d forum is a friendly place.

In defense of the 'grizzled veterans', I think it might be frustrating when people who don't understand the most basic concepts, like program flow, if / then statements, etc., show up expecting to be able to create a great game with little or no effort. For some reason, iPhone programming seems to attract these types.

As for myself, I say no question is too simple, and I try to point people in the right direction if I know the answer. I've noticed you've gone from asking simple questions to answering simple questions, which is a very cool thing.

I don't like it when people ask or demand working sample code, because I think writing code yourself and struggling with the concepts is the only way to learn. And, it kind of smells like asking others to do your homework. I guess others here feel the same way, because I notice that most of those questions go unanswered.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

Posted 1 year ago #
tjweir
Member

I don't like it when people ask or demand working sample code, because I think writing code yourself and struggling with the concepts is the only way to learn. And, it kind of smells like asking others to do your homework. I guess others here feel the same way, because I notice that most of those questions go unanswered.

+1

You see the same thing for pretty much any software forum. I just wish people would try it themselves, or search the archives, or google. Laziness is rarely met with enthusiasm to assist.

Posted 1 year ago #
pabloruiz55
Member

For me, i was a beginner in objective-c when i arrived here, and i still am.
I didn't understand anything, and the tutorial from monocle studios helped me gettting started, then i just had to check the examples to see how anything is done ( i still do).

What i have seen many times, as in another forums, are "unnecesary" questions, and i don't mean stupid, simple or newbie questions but questions that could be simply answered by doing a little search or checking the corresponding example.

It isn't bad not to understand something that is already written in an example, but many "rejected" questions are like "i don't know how to make X thing" and it is obvious that the answer will be "check the example that explains it".

I Think that if the question would be reformulated into something like "i am trying to do this and that and i don't understand why in the example is done like this" it would receive better answers...

Regarding the original question, i haven't seen someone asking something already present in an example, getting told so and saying "Ohh i had no idea there where examples!" So i don't think people don't know how there exist this examples.

Maybe the folder could be changed to "usage examples" or something like that.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@CJL - I would be honored. As I get better, I would love to contribute.

I can understand the allure of the iPhone. The recent news, even in WSJ, makes it sound like that millions are there for the picking. They dont explain very well that it actually kind of difficult to work that kind of magic in an iphone.

thanks for noticing also, I believe in giving back and I feel my general programming knowledge has increased significantly since starting here about 6 weeks ago.

It may "smell" like getting someone else to do the homework, but if the "programming concepts" guide were there to begin with, there would be a lot less asking. I agree about fully working code. There should even be a few "puzzles" thrown in to get the new programmer thinking, but as one that recently started, I can tell you that its easy to get floored by the simplest concepts. I'm still struggling with thinking in objects. I can see now as I program things top-down that there are "better ways" in some cases, but before, I looked at those examples, breaking things in to objects and just shook my head. I still don't get completely how the timers work. I'm effectively using 4 of them in my game effort, and I know its basically a big loop. But I have situations where I find myself unscheduling a timer during a collision and the recreating the timer down in the callback for the collision action. I know its not good code. Clain's explanation has helped but it will take a few more days for it all to sink in I think.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@TJ - at least in my case, I DO search extensively before asking in here. Sometimes I still end up figuring it out, a few times within minutes of asking... but I left my question and any subsequent answers (including my own) in the thread because I know at sometime in the future, the info is going to help someone else.

Posted 1 year ago #
abitofcode
Moderator

@Osiris

I don't disagree with any of your points being pretty fresh to cocos2D myself.

My observation may be completely unfounded but what you are left with after following the monocle tutorial is a minimal project with all the example code removed. The source code may not explain scene management or game structure in any way but it should certainly be a point of reference for all the 'how does this function work' type questions.

I'm not having a go at monocle, the tutorial is great and is often the first place a new cocos2D user is pointed to (hence the initial post).

Posted 1 year ago #
tjweir
Member

@osiris - sorry if it came across as an indictment, I was speaking generally.

I should have clarified.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@TJ - :)

Once you learn it though, the sky is the limit. Pointers will be like that girlfriend you can't stand but also can't get enough of. Pointers are like candy. You love em and hate em at the same time. Seriously, read up on pointers and learn them BEFORE you do anything.

If you want, I can give you some exercises to do in normal C that'll strengthen your knowledge of pointers.

I like Arian487's answer in the "Labels kill FPS" thread.

Posted 1 year ago #
jd
Member

I would think at least 75% of people coming to this forum are new to objective-c and to iphone development in general. A percentage of those are used to languages that have garbage cleanup. Then they have to get used to cocos2d which doesn't have good documentation but does have many examples. It's a daunting task and when an error comes up, they don't know if it's a syntax issue, memory issue or cocos2d issue.

I read Programming in Objective-C 2.0 and did most of the Stanford videos before even downloading the Iphone SDK. I went through the cocos2d examples. I've been programming for over 15 years in various languages. While cocos2d does make many things easy, it's still difficult to understand at times.

The more exposure cocos2d gets, more "give me code" posts will show up. At the same time, very smart contributors will also arrive and make cocos2d and the community better.

Being rude to somebody on this forum is wrong no matter what unless that person is blatantly being annoying. If a beginner is frustrating you then just don't post. It can't be that difficult not to hit the post button.

Posted 1 year ago #
Clain
Member

I agree with what you said about some beginners asking for code (I call them beginners :p). This is close to what I said in this post I made a few weeks ago : http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/forum/topic/737#post-7241

And I agree with jd too, about ignoring annoying beginners. That's what I do. Sometimes I can't help but think natanavra is being too kind with them, But maybe it's good for the "balance" of this forum to have people like him.

I remember this discussion about beginners already took place months ago in the old google forum. And I remember someone posted a link to a unix mailing-list message where the same thing occurred (lots of beginners asking for code, "veterans" being frustrated, etc). This phenomenon seems to happen on every dev forum. And the message on the unix list said they ended up having a series of rules before posting a message (like, "rtfm", "show what you tried before asking for code", etc). It would be worth having a sticky post with "rules" in this forum. We could also explain how to post code with backtick, how to use markup, how to edit posts or where to find code examples.

Posted 1 year ago #
natanavra
Member

Wow, I'm happy I'm noticed here lol...
I think you people are pretty much right, beginners should try some stuff themselves and not come here asking for code and letting us do the dirty work for them. Although I help people out when I can, trying to be a better person, acting like my father.

I agree with Clain, we should have some very basic rules for this forum, and we should have a close thread system or "trash can" section, so we could "punish" topics that don't fit to these basic rules.

I'm a totally newbie myself, started programming (first time ever) a few months ago. Saw Cocos mentioned somewhere a few times, but decided not to dive into it... finally, I decided to try it out about a month ago, getting better with time, learning. That's what we should all do, research and learn... life is all about learning and striving for knowledge.

Hope this post gives some motivation for people who read it.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

maybe have a library of code snippets in here...

one of the main perplexing things for me still is the all the square-bracketisms and what parameters are appropriate when.

and things like why it might be appropriate to use NSInteger instead of int, etc....

Even things like traversing an NSMutablyArray - not something you learn in non-objectized languages.

Posted 1 year ago #
natanavra
Member

@Osiris about NSInteger and int, NSInteger I think it's pure obj-C type, and int is a global type or something like that... just a thought.

But I do agree with having a code archive... or something like that.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

I know what the difference is now - kinda... but it would still be cool for there to be a quick reference on why one would be preferred over the other. I currently have a mixture in my current project and If I knew there was a good reason why, I would take the time to switch them all over to NSInteger.

Posted 1 year ago #
Clain
Member

I don't want to sound harsh but when we say "RTFM", it also includes the documentation. For example, you can open Xcode's documentation, type "NSInteger" in the search field and see what comes out. Actually, I urge you to do so because you're wrong.

@natanavra :
I can see why you think you become a better person by helping people. But, in most cases, giving ready-to-paste code to beginners is not helping them. You know the proverb : "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
Of course, it's a bit of a cliché, but true somehow. Giving code is helping them achieve their immediate goal. But they won't understand/be able to redo it. Trying and failing are parts of the learning process. So are reading the f*ing manual and searching through the doc.

We all know it sucks to be a beginner, we've all been there. And there's no secret, if you don't want to be a beginner anymore, you have to work. That's why I prefer to explain things and show the way instead of giving code away. My personal reason for being present and helping in this forum is to give back to the cocos community.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@Clain, what am I wrong about? I just typed "NSInteger" in Xcode's help and go no responses.

I agree Clain with not giving direct code, but facilitating the discovery of the information through reading and discussion.

Posted 1 year ago #
cjl
Member

@Osiris

You need to search the developer documentation built in to Xcode. You may need to 'subscribe' to download all the relevant documentation.

Posted 1 year ago #
Kahless
Member

@Osiris:
You bring up some great points, man I would kill for a cocos2d manual, Or even just a document with a slightly more detailed explanation of cocos instructions just like the one under the existing programming guide, just bigger.

@Natanavra:
You have helped me with a number of problems that i can't thank you enough for, i have learned a number of things from your assistance.

@Clain:
Speaking from a beginner forum users point of view is it bad form to post a snippet of your code and ask where it may be failing? I personally learn a lot when someone shows me what i am doing wrong.

Before I asked my first question here i was a bit apprehensive because i had seen how abrasive(just mildly) some experienced programmers could be when answering questions, I for one only come here and ask as a last resort after exhausting every example, cocos forum post or relevant googled cocos reference i can find. If someone does not answer my question it is fine, there might not be anyone on that knows or they are busy or they just think i'm a lazy noob begging for code, thats all fine i see it as a privilege that i can ask at all and maybe get an answer, no one is obliged to answer.

But surely there must be a place for beginners to ask questions as silly and misguided as we are, perhaps the forums needs a beginners questions section or maybe cocos needs some better documentation, you could look at every piece of detailed documentation you write as one less question you have to answer.
Oh and I have read a number of your posts and I always find them educational Clain, you are a wealth of knowledge!

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@CJL - thanks, I found it.. Maybe the same thing for cocos2d would be good!

Posted 1 year ago #
Steve Oldmeadow
Administrator

If you don't like the documentation that comes with cocos2d you can always ask for your money back.

Seriously, if you need to be spoon fed then spend some money and buy Unity, Torque or eventually Game Salad.

Where would the magical cocos2d documentation come from? Writing good documentation is very hard and for most developers very tedious. There is absolutely no way Riq should have to write it, so who is going to step up and write it? There have been some good blog posts but most bloggers seem to get bored and don't bother to keep their examples in synch with the latest cocos2d release which causes even more problems.

Most people that whine don't know Objective C, it is no wonder cocos2d is hard to understand for them. It is like trying to read a university text book written in a foreign language when all you have is a 5 year old's comprehension of that language.

Posted 1 year ago #
Clain
Member

@Kahless :
Hey man, I wasn't trying to scare the hell out of beginners so they don't ask their silly questions in the forum. Of course you can post your code to get some help. In fact, one of my point was that experienced programmers would be more willing to help a beginner if he posts what he's already read/tried/coded and what specific problems he encounters. I know I'm upset when I see a noob posting a one-line question asking for code doing a specific thing. The funny thing is when I click on their forum profile and see it was their very first post in this forum. If I'm in a good mood, I give a link to another similar post in the forum, but most of the time I just ignore those questions. I wish everybody did the same but sometimes you get aggressive answers... Men just don't know how to live in peace. But I'm sure the moderators would intervene in case the tone gets too angry.

BTW, if you want to post code in this forum, please, use the backtick character (look at the very bottom of this page) and if possible, indent the code (with spaces, because this forum doesn't handle tabs).

Everybody wants a better documentation, but no one wants to write it... Personally, I think it's easier to get what the API does by looking at the source code (reverse-engineering) and the examples. But from a design/concept point of view, it's better to share opinions with others. I'm sure some discussions of this forum ought to be in the wiki. If you read something you think should be mentioned in the doc, don't hesitate to add it to the wiki. Anybody can modify the wiki. We can't always let Riq do all the work.

@Osiris :
Did you read this : http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/archives/358
Are you OK with NSInteger and int now ? I think natanavra mistook NSInteger for NSNumber. I'll let you read the doc to see the difference.

Posted 1 year ago #
crmagicxxx
Member

What I see as common mistake is that people come to cocos2d and want to make game without even proper knowledge of objective c. It's like you want to run and you didn't even learn to walk.

I would recommend to everyone to make first app/game without cocos2d. That's the best way to learn objective c. I made my first app in 3 months, didn't know anything about objective c, read tons of manuals, references. Did million of mistakes, corrections. Some Objective C books read 2 times, first time to get familiar, second time to master it. And it wasn't about iPhone at all.

And after that I came to cocos2d. Man that wasn't easy transition, because 3-4 months ago there wasn't almost any documentation for cocos, and for sure not so many people willing to help. It was all about trial and error experience. Now I can't imagine doing anything without cocos :)

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@Steve - "don't bother to keep their examples in synch with the latest cocos2d release which causes even more problems."

Yes, this is a big problem for us noobs. We look at these blogs as good examples, follow, copy and tweek the code and then program ourselves right into a hole and come here looking for help. You old-timers can glance at a piece of code generally and instantly see what is wrong or that such and such worked in 0.63 but was depreciated by 0.71 and removed by 0.80 -- We Can't!

And yes, I have jumped right in with cocos2d. I really dont want to develop for the Mac, just the iphone and this library makes a lot more sense to me than plain objective-C. There just has to be ways the discussions and examples can be streamlined for beginners. Its hard enough as it is without having so much blatantly wrong information in those blogs that leads cocos sheeple down wrong and frustratingly time-consuming paths.

@clain - yes I read through the NSInteger help once I knew it existed - thanks! I am trying to read teh APIs more, but I have to see it in context too to make any sense of it. I'm middle aged now and wear bifocals. This doesn't come as easy as it used to. I've been programming in one sense or another since the CP/M days and Apple II and TRS-80 before that. I grew up with BASIC, Turbo Pascal, Turbo C, and then I got into MIS Management and had to learn things like Excel, visual basic, SQL PHP, etc... I kinda lost out on the the whole C to C++ migration and just started picking up C# and Python a couple of years ago. Its the "objectiveness" that is throwing me the most, but its coming.

Posted 1 year ago #
Blue Ether
Member

Cocos2D is not a magic pill for "not wanting to develop for the Mac." Until you embrace it, it will probably continue to be a struggle (and not a noble one either).

Cocos2D documentation is sparse, but I've put up with far worse. Having just come from Unity I can tell you that their documentation may SEEM better- it's on fancier looking pages and there is more of it. But there is not nearly enough more relative to the complexity of the product. There are plenty of useless or missing property descriptions, hidden (but necessary) optimizations, etc. I'm SO much happier developing for Coco2D. If the Cocos2D documentation has lapse descriptions (as it frequently does), you can go read the source files yourself any time you want. Being able to actually check under the hood yourself makes a difference.

Also, if you are confused about general ObjectiveC issues such as the "scary square brackets" then there are many, many books available on the topic. Apple also has very thorough online documention that I have found quite valuable. I've only been coding in ObjC for a few months now so I understand the difficulties, but this is a Cocos2D forum- there are plenty of other resources and forums for general Objective C questions. In my opinion it is not the job of the Cocos2D community to duplicate all of these resources.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@Blue, I know Cocos2D is not a "Magic Pill" -- but it *IS* the sole device that attracted me to programming for the iphone. You don't have it denigrate everything that has been said here. The culture shock of just jumping in - IS fairly formidable and it could be improved to help new users - especially since I'm sure we all want this toolkit to continue gaining popularity - and it will I'm sure.

Some people in here have made some very good observations and they should all be taking into consideration.

Posted 1 year ago #
PhilM
Member

I agree in that people should really read a large chunk of the apple docs, and an objective-c book before even attempting to use cocos2d. Its just so much to learn in one go otherwise!

I also went through a mac programming book (as no iphone books existed due to the harsh nda at the time), which helped alot, even if I haven't gone back and done any desktop programming since, it helped me understand the base framework alot better.

I looked at Unity & iTorque when I first started to get into iphone dev, and very stupidly bought iTorque/iTGB based on a demo of their desktop version (no iphone demo was available). Probably the worst purchase I have ever made. It was nothing like the desktop version, and was certainly no 1.0 release, more of a 0.1-alpha! Only then did I discover cocos2d, which even at the early stages had far more usable features, I just wish I could have given that money to riq instead of those scam artists.

Even though there may not be loads of docs yet, theres sooooo many examples showing pretty much every feature, its usually not too hard to figure out what you want, as long as you've done your homework and learned the basics of the language first. Then you've got the great community here to help you out when you do get stuck, as long as your not asking others to code your project for you ; )

Posted 1 year ago #
abitofcode
Moderator

@clain I agree with the sticky post idea, the information is already in a number of places through the site but having a single post at the top of the page may help focus on what they are actually asking before they post. I've thrown a bit of text together from the ideas above and a number of other posts, it's a starting point but I wouldn't want it to get to big as it may put people off (BTW I have no connection with Apress I just like these 2 books in particular).

Before you make your first post

Welcome to the cocos2D forum, in order to make your visit pleasant and productive please read through the following, it should also help you avoid getting on the wrong side of the community members ;)

How do I start writing a game in cocos2D?
Try iPhone Games Projects (Apress) there is a bonus chapter by Jamie Gotch available from the website along with the source code. This chapter covers building a blocks game in cocos2D.

I'm having a bit of a problem with Objective C?
This is not an Objective C forum, though it can be hard some times to differentiate between which bits are part of which Framework. Try the following book;
Learn objective C on the mac - Mark Dalrymple & Scott Knaster (Apress)

I’m having problems with cocos2D 'methodXYZ'
Have you looked at the cocos2D api documentation, Riq has put up an article showing how to integrate the cocos2D api documentation alongside the Xcode documentation here Integrating cocos2d API reference into XCode http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/archives/358

Is there any example code?
Cocos2D comes with a set of demo’s (you may have cut these away if you followed the Monocle studios tutorial). Look through the example code included in the cocos2D distribution you are working in, the sample code is updated along with the distribution so what may have worked in version 0.7 may not be relevant for version 0.8.1.
The following tip from the Wiki may help you get up and running with the examples.

1. Open the cocos2d xcode project
2. Click: Xcode → View → Customize toolbar
3. Then, drag Active Target and Active Executable to your top project tool bar.
4. Select the test you want to view in both drop downs and hit Build and Go

There are also a number of open source games out there complete with source code available for study.
http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/wiki/doku.php/prog_guide:sample_games

Is there a programming guide?
Yep, its at http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/wiki/doku.php/prog_guide:index

Things you wish you knew when you first started with cocos2d
http://www.cocos2d-iphone.org/forum/topic/737#post-4405

Posting your article
Once you've researched your question and are ready to post it remember to use the correct markup.
Allowed markup: a blockquote code em strong ul ol li img object param embed. Please put code in between backtick ( ` ) characters.

Community members are much more likely to respond in a positive and helpful fashion if they can see you have had a go, it may help if you post the bits of code that you are having problems with.

Posted 1 year ago #
Osiris
Member

@@abit - a Great Start!

Posted 1 year ago #

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